DO NOT BUY OFF THE SHELF HUB CENTRIC SPACERS!!!
sorry for yelling lol but it is very very dangerous. every wheel has a different inner gap if you know what i mean and the point of hub centric is for the lip to sit inside the gap. if you buy off the shelf the chances are that the wheel face will not sit flush against the hub which puts stress on the wheel studs and they WILL snap! trust me, it happened on my old drift car.
i went to a second hand mag shop who reconditions/fixes them etc and they measured the inside lip and the hub face and custom made 25mm billet bolt ons for $125. but this was 2 years ago.
so yeah in summary of my rant get custom ones made so your car stays intact _________________
Joined: 10 Jul 2008 Posts: 952 Location: Bunbury WA
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject:
mate going by that way of thinking, youre saying its bad to mount wheels on the factory hubs without spacers because they might not centre properly.. _________________
no you have to understand that you are increasing the wheel track by for example 25mm (whatever size the of the wheel spacer is) so what happens is you are placing more stress on the standard wheel studs because it is holding the bolt on spacers which in turn bolt on the rims. thats why they also measure the size of your standard wheel hub when they make the spacers. off the shelf items will not generally be the exact size as the stock hubs. with custom made ones being the same size it distributes the stress onto your hubs like toyota designed them the same as a rim would. in turn the lip on the spacer (to make them hub centric) also distributes the weight more as the lips is custom made to fit inside your wheel.
now 25mm or whatever size might not seem like much but once you throw in the force of the rotational weight (wheel moving forward in excess of 100kmh) it is a great deal of stress.
in the old days before people understood this concept they would get slip in spacers with no lip and longer wheel studs to compensate and 9 times out of 10 the wheel stud would snap due to the excess weight and stress put on the studs. hence why they make them to be the same size as the standard hub and also the lip to fit inside your rims.
i drag race motorbikes and have learnt a crud load about rolling inertia and weights as on a motorbike there is a great saving in weight and more speed by running lighter (carbon fibre or magnesium) wheels as there is less rotational weight which in turn means faster acceloration and cornering. the same as putting big chrome heavy 20s on a aristo would make your car slower. thats why ducati etc put magnesium wheels on bikes.
hope that makes it a little clearer for everyone
edited: because i dont think much before i type lol _________________
Joined: 19 May 2008 Posts: 656 Location: Perth - SOR
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject:
i sortof skim read what Slain said and there is arguments both ways for hub centric. a lot of the Jap guys run non hubcentric spacers and have no issues whatsoever.
also, you will find that a lot of people who buy aftermarket wheels, especially ones from Japan, wont fit any kind of plastic/urethane ring to their hub so that the centre bore of the wheel isnt actually resting on the hub ring.
i bought SSR Viennas from Japan for my S13 and i actually could not get a hub ring that would suit the Viennas. i went to several tyre shops and some even gave me their collection of hub rings and said go for your life, you can have whatever you want! And none of them fit. The fact of the matter is that Japanese wheel bore sizes are different to aussie spec wheels.
I have bought off the shelf bolt on wheel spacers for my s13 and they were made for the S13 and had the correct centre bore to sit on the hub and then had a standard sized hub ring coming off the spacer itself. the problem remained that the rings you can buy wont go big enough to suit the wheel bore and your standard hub bore which is replicated on the spacer (for my S13 anyway)
The other problem i had was with one set of Bolt on spacers the studs in the spacer actually bent in all different directions! so the wheel wasnt bolting up straight.
I did have some custom spacers made and they were by far the pick of the bunch. they were about $200ea though from memory. I would recommend trying to get some bolt on spacers that match your hub size (it may be a standard toyota fitment or similar to another model) and then also ensure they have a hubcentric ring on the spacer. From there, then find out if you can get a slip-on plastic ring that will fit both the hub locator ring AND the wheel centre bore snugly. If you cant, then getting custom made bolt on spacers to suit both the wheels and the hub is the best best.
Alternatively you could get some custom made urethane locator rings to suit the hub + wheel combo but i dont know where you would get those made up
Joined: 10 Jul 2008 Posts: 952 Location: Bunbury WA
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject:
slain you're dead right in that respect, but say you were to bolt some 18x9" +40 rims to an aristo, which werent hub centric. you decided they looked liek shit so you spaced them out 25mm, still with non hub centric spacers. yea you could say they dont locate properly and it adds more stress blah blah blah, and by no means am i saying that you're wrong
but then say you fit another set of rims, except in an 18x9 +15, still non hub centric. been done plenty of times before with no issue, and is effectively the same fitment as the +40 with a bolt on. the weight centre of the wheel is still in the same spot, and it will put just as much stress on the studs, possibly more even as there are no extra studs to take some of the strain like there are in a spaced out setup. yet still this is a pretty common sort of fitment for pretty much any car, not just an aristo.
i think im probably just rambling now... but the point is, bolt on spacers arent particularly evil, and as a general rule, are a pretty good option to better your wheel fitment. _________________
fair enough but from what ive seen with rims, the lower offset still fit stock wheel studs because the distance is still the same, by that i mean a +40 and +10 offset rim will have the wheel nut located in the same distance from the hub as generally the holes on the rim are more recessed. the only excetion i have seen to this is longer wheel nuts which have the sleeve that sits in the rim which still grips the same as a normal nut but if you had a normal nut it wouldnt be able to fit a head on it so it would never be able to go on or off. _________________
I think Toyota's engineers probably knew what they were doing when they designed the hubs with a spigot which fits snugly in the wheel. The existence of the spigot makes me think that they didn't intend the wheel studs to take the load.
So... if you fit aftermarket wheels they should have spigot rings, and if you fit spacers they should be hubcentric.
Eibach, H&R, KICS, and Ichiba make hubcentric spacers with the Toyota/Lexus 60.1mm centre-bore/spigot. _________________
Joined: 19 May 2008 Posts: 656 Location: Perth - SOR
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject:
yeh 60.1
i even think that silvias have that!? sounds familiar when i had my S13.....
but the thing im trying to say is, i found that although i had the hubcentric hole in my bolt on spacer which snugly fit over my hub bore of 60.1 or whatever, the wheels had such a large centre bore being Japanese made, that there was no ring i could get that was 60.1 in the middle, but then thick enough on the outside to make the wheel centre bore sit snug onto it. That may be your problem
...... the wheels had such a large centre bore being Japanese made, that there was no ring I could get that was 60.1 in the middle, but then thick enough on the outside to make the wheel centre bore sit snug onto it. That may be your problem.
I had the same problem with my Carlsson wheels. I had to have rings made by a local engineering company. _________________
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