Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: A bit of a let down...for the purists.
Being a memeber who is still patiently waiting for things to transpire until Aristo ownership eventuates, i have been spending my time waiting and doing alot of research. Being a GTR owner also i was quite disturbed when i came across some data on the wikipedia site. my understanding was the 2JZGTE being what could be considered a jewel in the crown of all mighty toyota appears not to be the case...not toyota that is. it appears the engines birth and origin is not from japan but germany!!! my quest to find out why this motor is so reverred and highly sought after kind of ended in sheer dissappointment...sort of. i still want an aristo and i still want the 2jz. not saying that the japanese are not at all capable of building a fearsome engine, the example in my driveway is proof, but i honestly thought the 2JZ was purely a toyota concept, not an outsourced piece of kit supplied by its own competitors. although it is reassuring that coming from either camps you really cant lose. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_JZ_engine can someone concur if wiki got it wrong?
hmm, 2JZ-GE, send it off to a firm to do a sweet turbo setup, and then mass produce the design...i aint fussed, cos it's a fkn sweet motor _________________
Dazwaaah wrote:
techno vikings EVERYWHERE!!!!
seriously thats how they all dance... walk for a bit.. then viking that shit... walk... VIKING... WAAAAALK... VVVVIIIIKKKKIIIINNNNGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!
i was aware the original design of the aristo was from italy hence the name of the car. it was just surprising that toyota needed to actually do that. i guess it could have been worse and gone to the US!!! the japanese have alot of pride in there own work but these days it is sometimes hard to tell what is really what as alot of the technology is "borrowed". this just caught me by surprise and i really never would have guessed it.
I guy I used to work with said that Nissan sent their engineers over to Germany to learn from engine design. The RB series of engines were based on the inline 6 engines that BMW used.
i would say basing an engine on another design as opposed to a complete ground up build are 2 different animals. that said i guess many bullet proof bottom ends came from an initial design then adopted by other manufacturers accordingly. it wouldnt be hard for any manufacturer to rip open a competitors motor and say a-ha! nissan recently bought a few porsches and did the same thing. i am not dissing a car i will be woning very shortly, some may have taken it out of context. i am merely stating a very credible fact. no bashing here at all. as a point of fact i really cant stand the sight of my GTR anymore in the carport.
Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 3441 Location: Melbourne Australia
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:52 am Post subject:
Don't forget the 1JZ. You would probably find that the German company improved the desdign on the 2JZ rather than from the ground up anyway based on the 1JZ. I wouldn't trust the Wikipedia either. It may have been the case that Toyota Japan designed and built the engine and it was simply worked on in Germany for racing.
As stated earlier; I would rely on the Germans and the Japanese as far as engineering goes nowdays every time. Look where the Toyota F1 team is based. (Don't focus on their results so far please. )
(And just don't mention the War.)
Ok, enough yank bashing already. I love the 2JZ, as well as all cars. Hands down the 2J is one helluva engine. I could careless who did the R&D on it because it came out great. What do you blokes think about the LS series engines from General Motors? I think these engines are awesome, too. 30 mpg and over 300hp from the factory from a pushrod V-8. Really what I'm saying is give credit where credit is due. _________________
Pearl white and silver, slammed on 19x9's and 19x10's, plenty of bump, and 1.2 bar of boost. What else you wanna know?
Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 3441 Location: Melbourne Australia
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject:
94 Turbo Aristo wrote:
Ok, enough yank bashing already. I love the 2JZ, as well as all cars. Hands down the 2J is one helluva engine. I could careless who did the R&D on it because it came out great. What do you blokes think about the LS series engines from General Motors? I think these engines are awesome, too. 30 mpg and over 300hp from the factory from a pushrod V-8. Really what I'm saying is give credit where credit is due.
Hehehe!
You gotta understand that in Australia the 2 'big cars' are the Holden Commadore and the Ford Falcon. Both 5.0 Litre US V8's versions are raced in the V8 Supercar series.
Us Aussies have been used to these engines 'since Adam was a boy'.
Don't be offended. You'd be surprised then that traditionally our domestic built cars have had a huge influence from the US and until recently, much more that from the Japanese or the Europeans.
What do you blokes think about the LS series engines from General Motors? I think these engines are awesome, too. 30 mpg and over 300hp from the factory from a pushrod V-8. Really what I'm saying is give credit where credit is due.
Yeah I owned a LS1, it was interesting because when Holden first got it, they did everything possible to limit the power it made. They needed the engine to span around 8 years worth of cars, and for it to make more power in each car. So most of them running around are no where near their potential.
So squash this pipe, reduce diameter of this, retard timing here, insert stupid diff ratio there, etc. My VXII SS was dyno'd (stock) with 165kW @ rears. The guy who bought it had another program 'flashed' into the ECU (no custom tuning, no other mods, took 30 seconds to do) then it ripped out 220kw @ wheels. The LS1 is easily capable of 250kW @ wheels with a proper exhaust & tune.
The 2JZ-GTE was outsourced to German firm Johann A. Krause Maschinenfabrik GmbH to refine and make suitable for use in the Japanese Grand Touring Car Championship "JGTC"
The engine was not designed or made in Germany at all
by stating that it was not designed or made in Germany...what are the facts on that? why would a indiscrminate name be used if it were not credible. wiki would cop it if the facts werent borderline true. to outsource is to find a supply of a part or commodity not supplied in house. please explain. would be more happier if wiki did screw up and it is a true toyota engine. as i dig deeper on borrowed technology i also discovered that the nissan fj20t engine was an abandoned mercedes benz designed engine back in the days of very early F1. strange.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
